Curse

Nemo the Capitalist · Aug 20, 2007, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoriaOrc

That's not likely at all. I'd assume ANet uses a 32bit Int to store money. They cant use a 16bit (not enough room for the existing cap), and there's no reason to use anything in between those since it would require their own custom data type. Plus 32 bits is absolutely trivial compared to the amount they must need to transmit for even something like a character move, or to store for your character name.

So if that is the case, a 32bit int can contain values in the range -2,147,483,647 to 2,147,483,647, if you need negatives, or (as would be the case with money) if you don't, values in the range 0 to 4,294,967,295. The current cap of 1,000,000 is very very far under that range.

Cutting a corner here on data storage makes absolutely no sense. The cap is almost certainly in place for balance reasons.

Is it just me .....wtf he talkin about

too many words O_O

Sniper22 · Aug 20, 2007, 03:07 AM // 03:07

Inflation ftl! Thats all i gotta say

acidic · Aug 20, 2007, 03:18 AM // 03:18

maybe something to combat inflation would be to introduce armor repairing...

example:

Armor got some durability and after being pummled for so long requires some gold & some material to repair. That would prop up the demand for some materials and 'consume' inflated gold...

mayne

arcanemacabre · Aug 20, 2007, 03:55 AM // 03:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemo the Capitalist

Is it just me .....wtf he talkin about

too many words O_O

Basically, there are standards for how much memory can be assigned for storage. You'd want to assign the least amount of memory as possible to maximize space on the servers. What they are saying is 16-bit would allow up to 2^16 digits (I think that's right), which would be 65,536. That means the gold limit in storage would only be that much, rather than the 1mil we have. In order to allow for 1mil, they would have to go the next step up, which is 32-bit, or 2^32 = 4,294,967,296. That is of course well over the 1mil we are allowed.

So potentially, we could have the storage limit increased to over 4mil and still take up the same chunk of memory on the server. It would cost them nothing to do so, so there must be other reasons (economy balance) for the limitation.

MoldyRiceFrenzy · Aug 20, 2007, 04:55 AM // 04:55

me need monies...

bilateralrope · Aug 20, 2007, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemo the Capitalist

Is it just me .....wtf he talkin about

too many words O_O

Basically that unless ANET is doing something really unusual with the data storage for gold then players should be able to hold 4,294,967,295 gold on their characters and in storage should ANET decide that the artificial limit was removed.

So there aren't any technical issues with removing the gold caps.

drago34 · Aug 20, 2007, 08:16 AM // 08:16

The money cap issue is because anet never planned on the economy going to hell like it did.

TabascoSauce · Aug 20, 2007, 11:17 AM // 11:17

I'd like to contribute 2 points, to dispel some FUD.

1. I see a lot of posters in here going on about how lowering the income in-game, and thereby lowering the total money supply, lowers prices. That affects demand, (of supply and demand fame) since players cannot buy items, and sellers will be forced to lower the prices. Anyone with basic economic theory will tell you this will work. They will also tell you that there is another way, a less painful way, to lower prices - and this is what all these posters cannot seem to grasp - supply. If everyone in normal play got a Sup Vig drop per day average, then Sup Vig would be virtually worthless overnight. Everyone would have 12. And the best part of all this is that everything is virtual - if we all had stacks of ectos then your (real) milk would still be in your (real) fridge. Scarcity in this game is artificial, and ANet seems to choose the more painful route, given any choice.

Oh, I can hear the screaming already - since this argument has happened before - of OMFG if everyone had Sup Vigs for all Heroes then the game will be even easier than it is now, no challenge, sky is falling. Well try this on for size - if you can whoop lv 28s with half cast times, then maybe the AI is the problem.

2. If ANet was thinking of lowering the in-game money supply, then why hit the income of the average player who is not participating in the "100 plat + 20 ectos" section of the economy? The problem is the multi-millionaire with their stacks of ectos and their 1000 plat across 3 accounts. So, give them something to spend their money on - and make it worth their while. I'd like to see them put in the means to buy dumba$$ titles like drunkard. Heck, they should open a shop and sell those DP-removing candy canes for a plat each. Those would sell like hotcakes, and pull money from the economy. As it is now, they have nothing of the sort for people with more money than they know what to do with to spend it on. Just a thought.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

thral · Aug 20, 2007, 04:17 PM // 16:17

o_O i see rich people O_O, if u need that extra storage space u know uve been playing too much, although i wasnt back in the old days so hell, what do i know, i make my money the hard way after all the nerfs were put in :P.
(If u dont know what im saying its ok, i havent slept for 3days and just got off a 11hour flight from summer camp so yeah.....)*goes off to get well deserved sleep......*

haggus71 · Aug 20, 2007, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Tabasco has it covered.

It comes down to offering things for the different levels. If a guy wants to farm and save a ton of gold, give him something to spend it on. The Japanese had this problem in the 80's where they were such a savings-oriented culture that the economic flow was export-based, and the banks and government had to goad people with things to spend their money on. Give the gold farmer his Rolls Royce, and every time the price of a common item(such as a rune) hits the stratosphere, just increase the supply. You make the gold-hoarders happy while not giving the e-schlong to the rest of the gamers.

We all play for different reasons. there are ways in a fantasy world to make most people happy. They own the game. They just make it happen.

TabascoSauce · Aug 20, 2007, 06:59 PM // 18:59

I just get so tired of people trying to use the current in-game economic status to justify hitting my (me, personally) in-game gold income per unit of time. I have never had more than 100 plat in storage, and that will always vanish when I go out and buy skills - which I still have many to cap.

I'm one of the casual players. I have a house, a job, and a family. My time budget is limited. That's OK by me, on my downtime I can get in and play, and this game does that right - the silly people who see GW as an achievement engine that is a substitute for real life can have their FoW armour which is no better than my 1.5K.

I have skills still to buy, and more/better runes for my Heroes, etc.

All my money does not stay in-game, I spend it on so-called "gold sinks".

When players have 1000 plat, and buy from other players, that money is not going out of circulation. That is the problem. There are no gold sinks for those people.

So we have players who are not like me, and have lots of time to play the game and farm farm farm. If you reduce income per unit of time, then I get affected proportionally as much as the farm farm farmers.

A better solution, as I said before, is provide something that players will have an incentive to buy. That can be in one of 2 forms.

The first is a title type sink. Buying booze or keys for drunkard or lucky titles can drag some money right out of the economy.

They can also have consumables. They have to have a meaningful effect in the game to actually be worth buying. I thought that the candy canes that took out 15% DP, or all DP, were great consumables that were not game-imbalancing. At a plat for a 15% DP reduction, I'd say they would sell like hotcakes. I'd think that anyone trying Mallyx would want them in stacks of 250.

BTW, haggus, i'd /signed!!!!!! for increasing the drop rates on items.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

Ghost Omel · Aug 20, 2007, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Umm its a big NO NO for armor repair we dont need more WoW content here thank you wery much there are other ways you know and some popel who dont wana spend their money that they already have spent on 15K sepose to be Durable armor and no no to wasting 100 coins each time especialy for poeple who are out alot and being pummeled by all kind of attacks so thanks for Armor repair

topdragon147 · Aug 20, 2007, 09:36 PM // 21:36

In case you have forgotten, there was no money cap when Guild Wars first came out. They implemented it shortly thereafter.

gasmaskman · Aug 20, 2007, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost Omel

Umm its a big NO NO for armor repair we dont need more WoW content here thank you wery much there are other ways you know and some popel who dont wana spend their money that they already have spent on 15K sepose to be Durable armor and no no to wasting 100 coins each time especialy for poeple who are out alot and being pummeled by all kind of attacks so thanks for Armor repair

Yes, armor repair is only in WoW. That is the only game that has WoW - that game is so original.

Loviatar · Aug 20, 2007, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by topdragon147

In case you have forgotten, there was no money cap when Guild Wars first came out. They implemented it shortly thereafter.

WRONG

there was a much tighter cap at 400K per account when GW came out

4 SLOTS HOLDING 100K EACH AND NO GOLD IN STORAGE

GOLD IN STORAGE CAME LATER

so yes there was a cap when it came out

A MUCH SMALLER CAP

Paloma Song · Aug 20, 2007, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

Or, stop ignoring the real cause; greedy players. The only reason anything goes for over 100k is because someone is willing to pay that much.

Economics much?

The greed of the seller doesn't cause the demand for his item. Someone who sells for much lower than he could out of some twisted principle isn't altruistic, he's foolish, and will be taken advantage of by smarter businessmen. Conversely, someone who sells for a price someone is willing to pay - as you noted yourself - isn't greedy, he's smart.

You could blame the buyers, for being willing to pay so much for said luxury items, but... why? It's their money, to spend as they like.

R!ghteous Ind!gnation · Aug 21, 2007, 01:18 PM // 13:18

100k keeps the economy in check. (even though its a pain to purchase high end items and forces you to run the risk of economic variables like ecto price drops)

bilateralrope · Aug 21, 2007, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by R!ghteous Ind!gnation

100k keeps the economy in check. (even though its a pain to purchase high end items and forces you to run the risk of economic variables like ecto price drops)

How does the 100k limit keep the economy in check when we bypass it by using ecto as a secondary currency to get around that limit ?

Mohnzh · Aug 21, 2007, 08:31 PM // 20:31

To me it seems obvious how the 100k keeps the economy in check. I have never heard of anybody selling things for more than 100k and 7 stacks of ecto. Check out games that have no cap in trade or possession like Maple Story. People set up there vending stands and sell for as many 9's as the programming will allow. Sometime's it's an item you can by for a couple thousand from an NPC. Doesn't make sense, and it takes forever to find something you want at a price that makes any sense whatsoever.

Personally, I think the economy is in pretty good shape. Just like any economy, it has to do a tightrope walk but it also seems self-correcting. Mainly because economies do that naturally due to the laws of supply and demand. I always have stuff to do, I am always spending my gold as fast as I get it, and I am always progressing, coming out ahead of where I started. I have been farming LB/SS points the last few weeks, and opening every chest I see and IDing every items, going for 4 titles at once. When I started, I just finished my Elonian SkillHunter and was pretty close to broke. I sold some mats from storage and bought 5 keys. Used those 5 and bought 5 more. Used those and bought 8. Got some elite tomes and bought 15. I am now up to buying 25-35 keys at a time. And to top it off, my storage is now full of gold drops and tomes to sell. The only thing that has not generated profit for me was treasure hunting in normal mode. Missions, skill hunting, point farming, questing. It all generates wealth through normal gameplay. That makes sense. You shouldn't get poorer as you play. The pace I play is much slower than most, so I know others can rack up the gold much faster than I do. But it seems appropriate to me. If they can do it, good for them. I don't think that there are any "useful" items that are out of reach monetarily for anyone. The stuff that costs above 100k is sold for looks alone, not for game advantage. Some of the coolest looking stuff, IMO, is also the cheapest. maybe once I have put all I can into the gold sinks my money will begin to accumulate. So what? If I get so rich as to max out my capacity, I wouldn't care about how much money I have. I also wouldn't care whether I could get 100k for an item, or 10k. I hardly care about it now. All my assets are in lockpicks currently (less than 30), and storage items (no cash). The only thing wrong with the economy is people want to be "given" stuff that is purely "aesthetic" and will not settle for utility. When the game started, you could still sell purple items because they had good stats. Now perfect won't sell unless the skin is rare. Start BUYING less than perfect stuff and watch the economy return to normal.

For the record, I am not a power-trader, farmer, or anything of the sorts, and have never had more than 45k in storage. Right now is probably the wealthiest I have ever been, and I have no cash.

Chris Blackstar · Aug 21, 2007, 09:27 PM // 21:27

best way to resolve this problem, is to make fixed prices on real materials, like ectos set at 1K and increase armor prices, like 15K fow armor now cost 100K a piece. Leave the caps in there place. "In my dreams, right?"

Face it the economy is fine, the problem lie with greedy players, and cheats. However nothing in this game is out of reach, it just takes time to achieve it. By the way most ecto millionares are players who lucked out when bugs occurred that lowered ectos to 300gp each at the traders, happened twice already if not more.